Global China Chat on tourism, transcript 1
| Global China Chat on tourism (Asia/Europe) | (04/02/2009) |
10:24 |  fonstuinstra: Have activated the Global China Chat on tourism for testing purposes. The real chat will start the the full hour www.chinaherald.net |
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10:26 | Fons Tuinstra: Welcome at the Global China Chat on tourism with Roy Graff, who will join us shortly from London. The GCC is hosted by Maria Korolov of the China Speakers Bureau. Our chat will start shortly. In case your screen does not update regularly, please press F5 to refresh your window. |
| 10:30 | [Be Right Back Countdown] | 5 minutes |
| 10:30 | [Be Right Back Countdown] | 5 minutes |
| 10:30 | [Be Right Back Countdown] | 5 minutes |
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10:39 | Fons Tuinstra: Maria Korolov profile |
10:39 | Fons Tuinstra: RG Profile |
10:39 | Fons Tuinstra: RG China Contact |
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10:45 | fonstuinstra: 15 minutes before we go live, now showing videos www.chinaherald.net |
10:46 | [Comment From Roy Graff] Hi everyone |
10:47 | Fons Tuinstra: Roy, your comments should show up now automatically, if all is well |
10:48 | Roy Graff: Ok, this is just a test message |
10:49 | Fons Tuinstra: Now ok Krista |
10:49 | Roy Graff: test link http://www.chinacontact.org |
10:50 | Fons Tuinstra: Will start Roy Graff audio now |
| 10:50 | [Audio file] | Roy Graff on TravelTalkRadio Play |
10:50 | Maria Korolov: Good morning everyone |
10:50 | Fons Tuinstra: Graff, Roy As a recognized expert in China tourism and hospitality, Roy Graff is the founder of ChinaContact, an online resource containing tourism information and services for China. Roy has focused his career on e-commerce, online travel and hospitality in China. He fouded ChinaContact in 2005, after gaining extensive business experience and insight while working in both Beijing and Shanghai. In addition to up-to-date information on travel trends and destination guides, ChinaContact also offers services such as travel consultation, agent training, media access and exhibition services. Roy has a bachelor’s degree in Chinese and Economics from the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. His vast knowledge of Chinese culture, language and business practices stem from his work in academia as well as the public and private sectors. Roy has bridged China tourism consulting with various travel and hospitality ventures in China, including a flagship forum on tourism in China, “China the Future of Travel,” held annually at the World Travel Market in London. Additionally, Roy is a Director of China Business Services and European Director of China Venture Capital and Private Equity Forum in London, and a founding member of China Advisers Network (C.A.N.), an association of leading China specalists and advisers from various disciplines in the UK. |
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10:55 | Fons Tuinstra: Welcome at the Global China Chat on tourism with Roy Graff, who will join us shortly from London. The GCC is hosted by Maria Korolov of the China Speakers Bureau. Our chat will start shortly. In case your screen does not update regularly, please press F5 to refresh your window. |
11:00 | fonstuinstra: Global China Chat on tourism starts now at www.chinaherald.net |
11:00 | Maria Korolov: Good morning, everybody! My name is Maria Korolov, and I'm the moderator of today's Global Chat on China Tourism. |
11:01 | Maria Korolov: Before I introduce our speaker, R Fons is also handling the multimedia for this presentation. Thank you, Fons, for being here today. |
11:02 | Maria Korolov: I will be moderating today's questions – we will try to get to everybody, please be patient. |
11:02 | Fons Tuinstra: A pleasure Maria, hope all goes well |
11:02 | Maria Korolov: Now I would like to introduce a recognized expert in China tourism and hospitality, Roy Graff. He is one of our speakers in the China Speakers Bureau. |
11:02 | Maria Korolov: Roy, thank you very much for being here! |
11:03 | Maria Korolov: As people join us, we would love to have you introduce yourselves and where you are from. |
11:03 | Roy Graff: Hi Maria, Fons. pleasure to be here |
11:03 | Maria Korolov: Roy is the founder of ChinaContact, an online resource containing tourism information and services for China. |
11:03 | Fons Tuinstra: RG China Contact |
11:03 | Maria Korolov: Roy has focused his career on e-commerce, online travel and hospitality in China. He fouded ChinaContact in 2005, after gaining extensive business experience and insight while working in both Beijing and Shanghai. |
11:03 | Maria Korolov: In addition to up-to-date information on travel trends and destination guides, ChinaContact also offers services such as travel consultation, agent training, media access and exhibition services. |
11:03 | Maria Korolov: Roy has a bachelor’s degree in Chinese and Economics from the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. His vast knowledge of Chinese culture, language and business practices stem from his work in academia as well as the public and private sectors. |
11:04 | Maria Korolov: Roy has bridged China tourism consulting with various travel and hospitality ventures in China, including a flagship forum on tourism in China, “China the Future of Travel,” held annually at the World Travel Market in London. |
11:04 | Maria Korolov: Additionally, Roy is a Director of China Business Services and European Director of China Venture Capital and Private Equity Forum in London, and a founding member of China Advisers Network (C.A.N.), an association of leading China specalists and advisers from various disciplines in the UK. |
11:04 | Maria Korolov: Roy, thank you again for joining us! It is a pleasure to have you with us. |
11:05 | Fons Tuinstra: China outbound travel handbook |
11:05 | Maria Korolov: Can you please say a few words of introduction? |
11:05 | Roy Graff: This is a great opportunity to talk to people all over the world about this topic which I am very passionate about. |
| 11:06 | Given today's economic climate, how important do you think Chinese tourists are to the international tourism industry? Very important ( 50% ) ( 50% ) ( 0% ) ( 0% ) |
11:06 | Roy Graff: This morning, the G20 world leaders are meeting here in London, and China is a very important piece of the puzzle. Maybe the most important |
11:06 | Fons Tuinstra: China outbound travel handbook |
11:06 | Roy Graff: Tourism is a very new and fragmented sector in China that has a long way to go before it matures. |
11:07 | Roy Graff: As such, early entrants stand to benefit greatly. Especially when you consider the culture of doing business in China, which values long term commitment and established relationships. |
11:07 | Maria Korolov: Roy, I've head that by 2020 it will become the single largest source of international tourism and the number one travel destination, while having the largest domestic tourism market in the world. In 2008 nearly 45 million Chinese travelled abroad. |
11:08 | Fons Tuinstra: Chinese travellers abroad |
11:08 | Roy Graff: Opportunities for foreign companies exist in outbound and inbound tourism. Mainly as the services sectors in China are being opened up now as part of the WTO commitments by China. UN-WTO new Secretary General has said at ITB that China intends to push outbound tourism to double it's current numbers by 2013 |
11:09 | Maria Korolov: Roy, is that going to hold up with the global recession? I see that some of our guests have the same question... |
11:09 | [Comment From Jerome Bouchaud] in what ways is the outbound travel towards Europe affected by the global economic slowdown ? |
11:10 | Roy Graff: No doubt, the growth rate will be affected by the global slowdown. It is inevitable. |
11:10 | Roy Graff: But if you consider that during good times, the rate has been 12-18%, even if it slows it will still grow at around 8-10% which is fantastic all things considered. |
11:10 | Fons Tuinstra: Where Chinese tourists already big spenders? |
11:11 | Roy Graff: Chinese tourists spend on average nearly as much as the Japanese. But their spending pattern is slightly different. |
11:12 | [Comment From Krista Bolles] Here is a link to recent statistics on China's inbound and outbound travel |
11:12 | Roy Graff: Normally they will not spend as much on acocmmodation or transport, but much more on shopping. |
11:12 | [Comment From Krista Bolles] Latest tourism statistics from China-outbound tourism up, inbound tourism down, domestic tourism up: http://news.future-of-travel.org/?p=1318 |
| 11:13 | What is the main obstacle in receiving Chinese tourists to your destination? lack of awareness or promotio ( 67% ) ( 0% ) ( 0% ) ( 33% ) ( 0% ) |
11:13 | [Comment From guest] What effect has the earthquake in Sichuan province had on tourism to that region of China? |
11:14 | Maria Korolov: We'll get back to the inbound tourism questions a little later... |
11:15 | [Comment From Angus Pearson] Hi Roy, I read with interest your China Outbound Travel Handbook. In it, you identify the key players in Chinese outbound tourism, i.e. those with a license and those without, and as such operate in a sort of legal grey area. Can you clarify what are the practical/legal implications of operating in this grey area? |
11:16 | Roy Graff: As I said, the industry is very fragmented. There are thousands of agents operating through a 'licensing' deal with an approved license outbound operator. This is due to the free market economy developing without proper checks and balances. |
11:16 | Roy Graff: therefore small, private companies that cannot satisfy the requirements for registered capital etc. find a way to operate by renting a license number from an agency. |
11:17 | Fons Tuinstra: But officially the outbound tourism is very restricted, how can get these non-licensed away with it? |
11:17 | Roy Graff: Unfortunately this means that when you see their name card or letter head, you would think that they belong to an accredited agency. The signs to figure who they are would be the address, and just knowing the players in the industry so you can ask about individual people's reliability. |
11:17 | Fons Tuinstra: No crackdown? |
11:18 | [Comment From Prof. Wolfgang G. Arlt] Hi, Roy, hi everybody, nice to see that many people are interested in China Outbound Tourism. |
11:18 | Roy Graff: Many of these operators are perfectly ok and have good business to give. |
11:18 | [Comment From Angus Pearson] Good question. Also, Is it expensive to rent a license number from an agency? |
11:18 | Roy Graff: Hi Wolfgang, great to see you here. (Wolfgang is Head of COTRI and an authority on China outbound tourism) |
11:19 | Roy Graff: prices are negotiable. some foreign companies do that but you do risk retaliation. It is a risky game so you need to be careful with whom you are dealing. |
11:19 | Roy Graff: I personally do not believe a foreign company should do that as you are also alienating other travel agents that could be your partners. |
11:19 | Fons Tuinstra: China's impact on global tourism |
11:20 | Maria Korolov: (COTRI is the China Outbound Tourism Research Institute) |
11:20 | Roy Graff: some retaliation from government takes place from time to time. but not in a massive way like the anti-corruption campaigns etc. |
11:20 | [Comment From Prof. Wolfgang G. Arlt] When I published a press release at the ITB 1999, saying that the time of Chinese Outbound Tourism has come, almost everybody declared me being lunatics or dreamers (or both). Ten years later, during the COTRI China Outbound Tourism Research Institute Workshop at the ITB fair in Berlin a few weeks ago, Dr. Taleb Rifai, Acting Secretary General of the UNWTO, gave us the honour to deliver a welcoming address. He emphasized the importance of China as a tourism source market in this troubled times and reported on the support the Chinese government is giving to the development of the outbound tourism market as one instrument to re-start the global economy. Dr. Taleb Rifai: “Chinese government representatives told me: We will work hard to double the number of Chinese Outbound Travellers in the next four to five years!” Given the current level of 46 million cross-border travels from Mainland China in 2008, this would translate to about 90 million travels in 2013 (Details on www.china-outbound.com). |
11:22 | Fons Tuinstra: Chinese tourists in Taiwan's museum |
11:22 | [Comment From Jerome Bouchaud] Are big names in the worldwide travel industry trying to get onto the Chinese market ? is it freely open nowadays for them to provide outbound services for Chinese tourists ? |
11:24 | Roy Graff: As wholesalers they can offer products and services to the travel agencies there. there is still no way to directly sell to consumers, outbound products. |
11:24 | [Comment From Jasmine] How essential is it for companies to focus on online marketing (i.e. social media websites like Facebook) and also on Chinese internet browsers (i.e. Baidu) to prospective Chinese tourists? |
11:24 | Roy Graff: the big ones are all there in one form or another. ITB, Jalpac from Japan, TUI, GTA, MIKI etc. but either they just have an inbound license or are operating as a representative office. |
| 11:24 | Do you think foreign companies have chances in China's tourism industry? Yes ( 67% ) ( 11% ) ( 22% ) |
11:25 | Roy Graff: Social networking media is important in China but stil mostly to youngsters. they are not yet economically powerful and I would say it is mainly an area to build brand awareness (for destinations, consumer brands). |
11:26 | Maria Korolov: We'll take a couple more outbound tourism questions, then we'll have a short break for a multimedia presentation. |
11:26 | [Comment From guest] How steep have travel discounts been since the economic slowdown hit? |
11:26 | Roy Graff: Your online strategy in China should focus on Chinese search engine optimization, online forums and bulletin boards. |
11:27 | Roy Graff: outbound travel discounting is big now, it started before Chinese new year and continues. it is not realy about selling at a loss since the RMB is so strong now and operators are able to offer a much lower RMB ticket price. |
11:27 | [Comment From Jerome Bouchaud] Working in the publishing industry, I wonder if Chinese people are interested in buying guidebooks about the destinations they travel to ?... |
11:27 | Roy Graff: agents in china have always been squeezed and in turn pressure suppliers. this is in mass market. |
11:28 | Roy Graff: there are so many guide books in China, written specifically for Chinese audience. |
11:28 | Fons Tuinstra: Decline in inbound/outbound tourists 2008 |
11:28 | Roy Graff: Lonely Planet just started to write specific guide books for Chinse as well |
11:28 | Roy Graff: Chinese also research online frequently and rely on recommendations from other real friends/online friends |
11:29 | [Comment From Angus Pearson] I can see how Chinese outbound tourism has great potential. If one were to start up as a UK tour operator from scratch right now, what key elements of the service would you incorporate? Let's leave aside, for the moment, the issue of connections and presence in China itself and sourcing business, but for now, just focusing on the type of tour experience that would differentiate oneself from other tour operators and most likely capture the most profitable customer segment. |
11:30 | Roy Graff: they are connected issues. you choose the product and then have to figure out how to sell it and to whom. Or you have the connection (eg. student groups, member clubs etc.) and then figure out what they want to do. |
11:30 | Roy Graff: china is complex, it has many sub-markets and so many specialist operators cater to either just the corporate, or maybe just south China etc. |
11:31 | Maria Korolov: We will come back to the other side of the China tourism issue -- inbound tourism -- after a short break. |
11:31 | Fons Tuinstra: China has seen a drop in inbound tourism. But is trying to beef up interest in the country. A video clip. |
11:31 | Roy Graff: so Angus, I can't really tell you now what is the product, aside from the general cultural preferences that you can get from my China Outbound Travel Handbook. if you want more, I am available for private consultation as you know. |
| 11:31 |
11:35 | Maria Korolov: Thank you, fons! |
11:35 | Fons Tuinstra: Back to Maria Korolov |
11:36 | Maria Korolov: Does anyone have anything else to ask about outbound tourism before we go on to the inbound side? |
11:36 | [Comment From Angus Pearson] Thanks Roy, I'll catch up with you for a chat soon. It's long overdue! |
11:36 | [Comment From guest] How has China's outbound travel market fared relative to those of Europe and North America? |
11:36 | Fons Tuinstra: New regulations on May 1 |
11:37 | Fons Tuinstra: What do those new regulations mean for foreign companies in China? |
11:37 | Roy Graff: the outbound market is doing much better in China compared to other countries. remember we are starting from a much lower base. only a small percentage of Chinese can afford to travel abroad. and vast majority travel to SE Asia. |
11:38 | Fons Tuinstra: December: Chinese consumer confidence |
11:38 | Roy Graff: the new regulations - do not make a huge difference to foreign companies. mainly intended to regulate local companies and address some of the problems with the 'grey' market. |
11:39 | Maria Korolov: One last outbound tourism question from one of our guests... |
| 11:39 | How is the number of international trips to China, hotel occupation rate, holding after the 2008 Beijing Olympics? Going down ( 50% ) ( 17% ) ( 33% ) ( 0% ) |
11:39 | [Comment From guest] How have difficulties in obtaining visas to visit other countries affected outbound tourism from China? |
11:41 | [Comment From guest] It is fairly difficult for Chinese people to obtain visas to visit countries in Europe and the Us, right? |
11:41 | Roy Graff: getting a visa is a major headache for Chinese. Some forward thinking countries started to offer individual visas or even visa wavers as a way to encourage more Chinese guests. European and North American countries are the most difficult to obtain visa to, and as a result do receive less visitors. |
11:42 | Roy Graff: often the rejection is doen to people completing the forms wrongly. In fact countries do not do themselves any fabvours. for example UK has the visa form in English and it must be completed in English. |
11:42 | Roy Graff: Cost and requirement for personal interviews are deterrents. Much can be done, eg. lowering the cost, conducting video interviews rather than in-person, and considering socio-economic background in the decision process. |
11:43 | Maria Korolov: Thank you Roy! |
11:43 | Maria Korolov: We've had a few questions come in about inbound tourism. |
| 11:43 | Has the recent unrest in Tibet effect on China's tourism Yes ( 80% ) ( 20% ) |
11:44 | Maria Korolov: In particular, our guests are wondering about the impact of last year's events -- the problems of Tibet, the Xichuan earthquake -- on inbound tourism. |
11:44 | Roy Graff: There are so many factors contributing to a decrease in number of inbound tourists, starting with the Olympics. |
11:44 | Fons Tuinstra: Visa-free thru Hainan |
11:45 | Fons Tuinstra: Do you take this story about visa free access through Hainan serious? |
11:45 | Roy Graff: There was a restriction placed on Visas to China from last April or so, which deterred many non-Olympics related travel throughout the year. the Olympics effect is also well documented to reduce tourism because of concern about higher costs and crowding |
11:45 | [Comment From guest] How badly have the restrictions on foreign travelers to Tibet affected tourism? |
11:46 | Roy Graff: there are already policies in South China for visa free excursions from HKG to Guangdong, this is another initiative to encourage visitors. But as demonsrated recently with the May day holiday argument, there is a disconnect between provinces and the central government. |
11:47 | Maria Korolov: They May Day Holiday argument? |
11:47 | Roy Graff: Tourism to Tibet by foreign visitors has obviously been affected. Now it is open again but the marketing/PR mess willl take a long time to set right. |
11:47 | Fons Tuinstra: But for visas it must be hard for provinces to act on their own |
11:47 | Roy Graff: http://news.future-of-travel.org/?tag=may-day |
11:48 | Maria Korolov: Thank you for the link! |
11:48 | [Comment From guest] How and to what extent will the number of official holidays in China affect the travel and hospitality market? |
11:48 | Roy Graff: Re Hainan - this is a new story, I have not followed it up yet so can only refer to what I read in an official media outlet. |
| 11:49 | Has obtaining visas for China become easier after the Olympics Yes ( 67% ) ( 33% ) |
11:49 | Roy Graff: Last year the policy regarding holidays changed, to reflect a move away from overcrowding and pressure on attractions during the 3 'golden weeks' |
11:49 | Roy Graff: so from last year you have a shorter May holiday and extra 2 long weekend holidays |
11:50 | Fons Tuinstra: Did the Chinese then take fewer holidays because the golden weeks were affected? |
11:50 | Roy Graff: the result is that more people choose to travel within China or short haul outbound travel. there is no culture of paid-holiday in most companies.Only the multinationals, Joint venture ones offer this, usually 12 days a year. |
11:51 | [Comment From guest] How has inbound travel to China been affected by the economic slowdown compared to other countries? |
11:51 | Roy Graff: So Fons to answer your question, yes it is having an impact. But hard to measure because it is happening at the same time as the Olympics and then global economic meltdown. |
11:52 | Roy Graff: people from developed countries in the West are not travelling as much or too far. this is a problem for China. as reaction they are promoting domestic travel. China's hotel occupancy in major cities such as Beijing at the beginning of this year was as low as 30%. |
11:52 | [Comment From guest] What are the biggest tourist draws to China right now, particularly in addition to the major cities of Beijing, Shanghai and Xi’an? What are the new, up and coming destinations in China? |
11:54 | Roy Graff: watch Western China carefully. after the earthquake, tourism to Sichuan and nearby provinces was hit but it is now coming back and tourism plays a very important role in the recovery and rebuilding effort. Sichuan, Yunnan have so much to offer to the tourist in terms of scenery, minority cultures, food etc. and the weather is pretty good. Also Guizhou, Gansu are not very developed and offer a very good insight into the 'other' China |
11:54 | Maria Korolov: Roy -- thank you for this! |
11:55 | Roy Graff: Xinjiang/Tibet are harder to travel in but worth the effort if you do it right with specialist operators. |
11:55 | Maria Korolov: We have a couple of questions left about outbound tourism that I'd like to get to before the end of today's chat. |
11:55 | [Comment From Jerome Bouchaud] which is worse for Chinese outbound tourism ? Chinese regulations or other countries' regulations ? |
11:55 | [Comment From Jeremy Gordon] Roy, Hi there. Last year a new process for Chinese visa applications was introduced in the UK (via an agency). Is this replicated elsewhere? Is it clear how it is working? Thanks. |
11:55 | Roy Graff: other coutnries' regulations re Visa are the main bottle neck. |
11:56 | Roy Graff: I am not sure if China implemented outsourced visa process in other countries outside UK, perhaps other quests can help on that. the UK does the same in China and India. It increases cost but should improve the effectiveness. Not clear yet how it is working (it has been done as a deal with Bank of China so not entirely along practical, economic considerations...) |
11:58 | Maria Korolov: We're getting ready to wrap up today's Global Chat. |
11:58 | Maria Korolov: If any of our guests still have questions, please add them now. |
11:58 | Fons Tuinstra: Do not forget we will repeat this Global China chat on tourism later today for the Americas and Europe; please check back at the sites who are hosting now. |
11:58 | [Comment From guest] Regarding recent travel trends in China, has the demand for more off-the-beaten path trips increased at all? |
11:59 | Roy Graff: it has always been there. there is more opportunity now to travel to more obscure places in more comfort, infrastructure is better and more air routes. so yes, it is more in demand and worth expriencing. we also do some of the more exclusive tours as a bespoke service, and see more requests coming. |
12:00 | Maria Korolov: Thank you Roy, for taking the time today! |
12:00 | Maria Korolov: And I look forward to chatting with you again for our North American audience in a few hours. |
12:00 | Roy Graff: just to say, credibility and reliability are all important. Check out the China Outbound Quality Label and other ways to make your service trustworthy for Chinese outbound visitors. |
12:00 | Maria Korolov: I would also like to thank Fons and Krista Bolles, who's been providing research and other support for this chat. |
12:00 | Maria Korolov: And, of course, thank you to all our guests for joining us today! |
| 12:01 |
12:01 | Maria Korolov: Please do stay tuned for our future chats. |
| 12:01 | [Ad] | China Speakers Bureau View |
12:02 | Roy Graff: There were some good questions here, glad there is much interest in China and I hope that those going after this market will take the time to know their customers. We are here to help and there are many free resources on www.chinacontact.org |
12:03 | Maria Korolov: Thank you, Roy! |
12:03 | Maria Korolov: If people have any remaining questions, can they contact you directly? |
12:04 | Roy Graff: I am on LinkedIn, Twitter, Viadeo, Plaxo, FriendFeed...and ChinaContact Tourism Network is the place to get advice - http://network.chinacontact.org |
12:04 | [Comment From Krista Bolles] Thanks very much Roy, Maria and Fons. |
12:05 | Roy Graff: Good bye |
12:05 | [Comment From Jerome Bouchaud] thanx Roy |
12:05 | Fons Tuinstra: To close off an older audio chat with Roy Graff, the inferface will remain open for another ten minutes |
| 12:05 | [Audio file] | Roy Graff on TravelTalkRadio Play |
12:05 | Maria Korolov: Good bye Roy, and good bye guests! |
12:11 | fonstuinstra: Finishing up the first Global China Chat on tourism; preparing for the second later today www.chinaherald.net |
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